Jeffrey Marsh: The Joyful Activism of Self-Love and Gender Identity

Jay Ruderman:
Welcome to All About Change. Hey, All About Change listeners. It's Jay here, and I wanted to tell you about my book, Find Your Fight, is now available in 800 Walmart stores. In the book, I talk about my biggest successes and those of others, and also failures as an activist, and my personal philosophy on how to make a difference. It's the perfect gift for friends and family who care about making a positive change in our society. My guest today is Jeffrey Marsh. For nearly two decades, Jeffrey has been a representative and advocate for LGBTQ people of all stripes, whether on Vine, TikTok, or Instagram. Jeffrey has built success on simple videos helping straight and LGBTQ people attain a lasting sense of peace and self-compassion. Jeffrey is the first non-binary person to sign a book deal with any Big Five publisher worldwide, and they have since written two books, How to Be You, and Take Your Own Advice. Jeffrey Marsh, welcome to All About Change.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Hi, how are you doing?

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Jay Ruderman:
I am good. I'm good. As I told you before we got onto camera, I'm a little bit nervous because I don't want to make a mistake. I am a bit older than you and I'm learning a lot of new things about gender and respect and how to correctly address people. So if I make a mistake, call me out on it. But if you have any words of wisdom, I would love to learn from you.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Let's start breaking it down spiritually. So what does nervous feel like?

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Jay Ruderman:
That I don't want to be disrespectful, that I'm a little bit tense because I'm all about respect, I believe that that is core to advocacy. That if you're going to be effective, you have to respect people that you're speaking to.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
So you told me what you're thinking. What does it feel like? Where is nervous in your body? What's the muscles? What's the quality of the physical aspect?

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Jay Ruderman:
Oh, I think shortness of breath, mind racing. Actually, before we came on camera, before you came on, I was practicing some of your breathing techniques. Breathing in, holding it, holding the breath in, letting the breath out, holding it as a way of doing a little mini meditation before we began.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
So you were already beautifully mentoring yourself.

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Jay Ruderman:
I was following your advice.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Well, hey, a tiny story. I went on Newsmax and that was a little ... There were some physical body sensations going on while I was sitting there. And before the camera was about to turn on, I'm saying to myself inside my head, "I love you. I'm glad you're here. Thanks for doing this." So you had a chance to have a mini meditation for yourself.

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Jay Ruderman:
I did. I did, yes.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
My teacher at the monastery would always say, "Feelings make things real." So I wanted to talk about the feelings first because me having anything going about whether you call me the right pronouns or whatever, that's a completely separate issue, and I don't have anything going about that. And what happens afterwards is very different than a story about what might happen. And we should be very kind to ourselves when we recognize that there's a story about what might happen and what we might do wrong and how we might prove that we're a bad person. All of that stuff is stuff we don't have to live with.

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Jay Ruderman:
Yes. And I think that I ... Not to make this all about me because we're going to talk about you. But I can attempt to be a perfectionist and I think that sometimes gets in the way.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Yes. There's a sequence that I'm working with in the people, I do workshops and coaching and that sort of thing. And there's just this paradigm that I've seen very differently now. I want to be safe, so I try to do what's perfect so that people will be pleased and so that I won't be abandoned. A four-part process that stacks all the way up on itself, and I'm not sure any of it's true. I can answer that one. None of it's true. Isn't that interesting? It guides a lot of our lives sometimes. Can I say thanks for being a good dad?

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Jay Ruderman:
Well, I hope I am. I hope I am. I have four children. And I do want to talk to you about this because you've talked about your parents and a separation and the reason for the separation. And that really, really scared me because I love my children and I want to have a relationship with them.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
And that's what scares you most. I don't know what's going on for you internally, but you had made a few comments throughout as you were talking about something so frightening, so painful, the loss of perhaps your relationship with your child, if not their safety. Which is so scary. And then a kind of running commentary that, well, things are going to be how they're going to be, which is fundamentally true and, my goodness, can we just sit with a frightening pain for a little bit? Because philosophically, yeah, things will turn out how they turn out. True. And it's okay to have a lot of complicated feelings about that dynamic and that relationship.

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Jay Ruderman:
Don't I know it? Been living that for a while.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Yeah. And so you asked me about my biography and some of the reasons why I made the decision I made. It's been years since I've spoken to anyone in the family. I haven't spoken to a cousin, a family friend, or anybody connected with the family for years now. And the reason that I, on TikTok, we say, "Go no contact." The reason I went no contact is that it wasn't healthy and it wasn't healthy for me. I actually would be open to it changing in the future. I think currently it's still not healthy or wouldn't be. But one thing I realized recently is that I was attempting to set boundaries with my parents, for example. But as far as I could tell, they had already set a boundary with me, and that was that they weren't willing to go certain places that I needed to go to talk about to heal for myself.

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Jay Ruderman:
I get that. I'm wondering if I could ask you something about your activism, because from the outside, you've been remarkably consistent in your message for decades now.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Yes. Correct. Go on.

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Jay Ruderman:
And how would you say that your work advocating for LGBTQ people has changed over the duration of your activism?

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Generally as an arc. So did you Google around and look at any of my old Vines? Speaking-

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Jay Ruderman:
I didn't see the Vines, but the Instagram, yes.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Yes. There was a time when people didn't know what non-binary was, for example. And so there was a lot of educational, there was an educational aspect to it, and that still happens actually to a certain extent. But there's ... How do I phrase this? Demonizing us for power and votes is very different than I don't know what I'm looking at, neither of which are very cute to deal with, but one is sure a lot more devious and immoral and hard to be around.

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Jay Ruderman:
I quite don't understand the demonizing others who are different. I remember, this is going to sound very corny, but when I grew up, there was a song which you may know of, and I don't know who sings it, but I am who I am and with no excuses. Do you know who sings that song?

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Jeffrey Marsh:
It is from the lyrics are Harvey Fierstein and the music is ... It'll come to me. It's from La Cage aux Folles.

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Jay Ruderman:
Yes. And I remember listening to that and being like, "Yeah, that's right." Why should someone be anything but who they are? And I think that, I don't know, maybe I'm naive, but I think that we live in a society where we should accept people for who they are and not try to change them or demean them or treat them as lesser than. And so when I see people that are being attacked, and particularly political leaders that are attacking a group, whether it's immigrants or LGBTQ, I don't understand it because I think that that is a weakness in our society, not a strength.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Well, I think that the answer is very simple. And you just said it, which is that they're not secure in themselves. So if you are secure in yourself, it doesn't matter what anyone else is doing. And if you are insecure in yourself, then you need to control others. And that shows up in a variety of ways. And for people who are in power, it shows up in trying to control whole groups of people.

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Jay Ruderman:
And how do you deal with that? How do you deal with the negativity that is directed at you? Because you're out there, you're visible, you're outspoken. How do you deal with the negativity?

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Jeffrey Marsh:
I don't read it. I don't engage with it. And I think that that's one of the most important lessons that I can give anyone is that you do not have to engage with everything that comes your way. And I think that social media has created this expectation that we have to respond to everything, and we don't. We can choose what we engage with and what we don't. And for me, I choose not to engage with negativity because it doesn't serve me.

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Jay Ruderman:
That sounds like a healthy approach.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
It is. And it takes practice. It's not something that you just wake up one day and you're able to do. It's something that you have to practice over time. And I think that that's true for a lot of things in life.

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Jay Ruderman:
I want to talk about your books. You mentioned earlier that you've written two books. What inspired you to write them and what do you hope people take away from them?

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Jeffrey Marsh:
The first book, How to Be You, was really about helping people find a sense of self-acceptance and self-love. And the second book, Take Your Own Advice, is about helping people listen to their own inner voice and trust themselves. I think that we often look outside of ourselves for answers, and we forget that we have a lot of wisdom within us.

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Jay Ruderman:
And do you feel that writing those books was also part of your own journey of self-discovery and healing?

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Absolutely. I think writing is one of the most powerful tools that we have for self-reflection. When you put your thoughts on paper, you start to see patterns and understand yourself in a deeper way. So yes, it was very much part of my own healing process.

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Jay Ruderman:
I want to ask you something that I ask many of my guests. What advice would you give to someone who wants to be an activist but doesn't know where to start?

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Start with yourself. I know that might sound counterintuitive, but activism begins with self-awareness. If you don't understand your own beliefs, your own biases, your own emotions, it's very hard to effectively advocate for others. So start by getting to know yourself better, and then take small actions in your community. You don't have to change the world overnight.

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Jay Ruderman:
That's really powerful.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
And also, be kind to yourself in the process. Activism can be exhausting, and if you're not taking care of yourself, you won't be able to sustain it.

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Jay Ruderman:
Jeffrey Marsh, thank you so much for being my guest on All About Change. I really appreciate your insights and your willingness to share your story.

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Jeffrey Marsh:
Thank you so much for having me.

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Jay Ruderman:
Thank you for being part of the All About Change community. We aim to spark ideas for personal activism, helping you find your pathway to action beyond awareness. So thank you for investing your time with us, learning and thinking about how just one person can make the choice to build a community and improve our world. I believe in the empower of informed people like you to drive real change, and I know that what we explored today will be a tool for you in that effort. All right, I'll see you in two weeks for our next conversation, but just one small ask, please hit subscribe and leave us a comment below. It lets us know that you value this content and it supports our mission to widely share these perspectives. If you're looking for more inspiration, check out this next video. I chose it for you and I know you're going to enjoy it. I'm Jay Ruderman. Let's continue working towards meaningful change together. Today's episode was produced by Tani Levitt and Mijon Zulu. To check out more episodes or to learn more about the show, you can visit our website Allaboutchangepodcast.com. If you like our show, spread the word, tell a friend or family member, or leave us a review on your favorite podcasting app. We really appreciate it. All About Change is produced by the Ruderman Family Foundation.

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